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Post by robertw on Mar 20, 2012 20:10:24 GMT -5
Many of you have asked about price comparisons and how these two auctions compare.Below is the best that I can describe it for you.
The MTA auction information is from what is printed on the front page of the Mountain Man news letter.
The NAFA prices are from my personal shipment to the February sale.
Beaver, These were from just north of insterstate 20 in Mississippi and were caught before Christmas (very rough compared to our Missouri beaver). My average at NAFA was $29.87, the MTA posted a $13.67 average.
Otter, Again these were December caught Mississippi otter (early, all were slatey). My average at NAFA was $108.35. The MTA auction posted a $93.72 average.
Coons, These were my early coons, all harvested prior to thanksgiving and included EVERY small dink coon and t!tty sow. My average was $19.65. The MTA posted a $12.78 average.
Mink, My NAFA average $27.83 (male and females). The MTA posted a $17.62 average for male mink.
Muskrats, All I had on the auction were October & early November caught North Dakota rats (they run about 1/2 to 2/3 the size of our rats and included every kit and mink eaten rat caught). My average at NAFA was $8.33. The MTA posted a $9.51 average.
Prices posted do not include commission paid or CITIES fees. At NAFA the commission is 9% if your a member of the Wild Fur Shippers Council. There are also rebates / profit sharing checks that are paid out some years that sometimes reduces this commission to a lesser percentage.
I hope this helps some of you better understand. I apologise for not being able to answer all of your PMs.
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Post by ozarkmountainman on Mar 20, 2012 20:23:04 GMT -5
Thanks Robert.
Dale
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Post by mofotrapper on Mar 20, 2012 20:31:01 GMT -5
A few questions robertw. Do you send all your fur up to NAFA or do you sell some at MTA? Out of all the fur that is auctioned off at MTA, does most of that if not all end up at NAFA at the end?
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Post by robertw on Mar 20, 2012 20:59:42 GMT -5
MoFoTrapper,
I ship all of my fur to NAFA. If it were more convenient I would ship a percentage of it to FHA just to keep from having all my eggs in one basket.
I do not have time to drive to Columbia and stand around all day waiting to sell fur. When the MTA auctions take place I am working out of state on another trapline.
As for how much of that fur ends up eventually at NAFA I don't know because I don't keep track of the buyers who buy fur at these auctions. A percentage of this fur DOES end up at NAFA and FHA eventually. Some of it is sold by the country buyers here in Missouri to "bigger" buyers who then consign it at NAFA in what are called "dealer lots" where it is under price protection and does not sell until the set price is met.
Sorry to be evasive in answering your question but this is as much as I am comfortable saying on this issue. Hopefully you understand.
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Post by mofotrapper on Mar 20, 2012 21:05:13 GMT -5
lol... RobertW you answered it quite well. I kinda new the answer, just wanted to hear it from someones else to let me know that my thoughts on it were correct.
Thanks Robert.
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Post by yote on Mar 20, 2012 23:37:13 GMT -5
I like FHA and NAFA but this year I didn't get alot of fur I will go with NAFA for now.
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Post by robertw on Mar 22, 2012 22:05:12 GMT -5
The question has been asked if I normally ship my "dink" coons and t!tty sows......The answer is no. This year I knew the market was stronger so shipped everything, this greatly lowered my average. Haven't had time to do the math to see what the average would have been without those 24" coons but believe it hurt the average at least $4-$6.
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Post by krank on Mar 22, 2012 22:15:02 GMT -5
I'm excited......The NAFA pickups are all at the end of March and the deadline for next auction is first part of April. Like I say, I put up my dinks as an experiment and will see how they do. If I had sold them green to my usual buyer then I would have practically gave them away. I enjoyed "putting up fur" this year and have learned from it. Win-win.
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Post by yote on Mar 22, 2012 22:40:19 GMT -5
Me too Krank I am getting worry over this heat it 85 today and bug are coming out .But they said it will be back to 40 where it should be by sunday but bug is already came out so I don't know this going help me or not .My dad said his basement is getting warm now and I can't wait for pickup date pick get here.
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Post by mofotrapper on Mar 22, 2012 23:36:24 GMT -5
Just another week fella's and they will all be heading North. All in good time.
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Post by townsendtaxidermy on Mar 23, 2012 7:38:21 GMT -5
The question has been asked if I normally ship my "dink" coons and t!tty sows......The answer is no. So, what do you do with them? I ask, because I'm beginning to think that a lot of what ends up at MTA are 'rejects', therefore lowering the averages? I know I bought some really great craft fur for really great prices. I saw a large lot of yotes go for $1, PUT UP! I didn't know the auctioneer even had a bid...thought he was just trying to get an opening bid of $1, and next think I know he said "sold!" But I got quite a few for $7, coons for $5, and lots of beaver for under $10. All of them already put up. |
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Post by bigjohn on Mar 23, 2012 8:07:08 GMT -5
Kim,that's one of the problems I had with the MTA auction.It didn't seem to have any consistancy on the same quality of stuff sold.It seemed if one of the key buyers left the table to eat a sandwich or go to the bathroom when a certain pile of fur came up to bid,then that seller got less than he would have.I'd rather see a type auction,where the buyers went around and looked at all the fur they were interested in,then submit their bids.After all the fur was looked at and bidded on,the seller is given the bids to make their decision on wether or not to accept.I think this would give the trappers a better price on their fur and would stop alot of people from walking out the door when they see how the auction is going.Alot of other auctions are held this way,so it's not like it is unheard of.But that is just my opinion.
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Post by segsarge on Mar 23, 2012 17:20:30 GMT -5
OK, you drew me back out. I've been in a self imposed "no post" mode for a few days to let my BP go down. I just can't stress how much better it is shipping to NAFA or FHA. These prices reflect it. I catch a better deal being a member of the WFSC. It's easy and painless, it makes you money in the long run.I 'd be willing to bet that 85-90% of what goes thru the MO auction goes on up north to the big auction. Kim is exactly right about the prices on fur being "give away" sometimes. This makes some people angry and suspicious. I won't go off in that any farther. On the flip side, IF you are planning on shipping to NAFA you need to put your fur up the way they want it. This is not hard to do! I've seen fur that if had been done just a little different, would have brought lots more. Much of this is simply not knowing what they want. SOMETIMES (not always) good fur is mishandled and the local buyer knows he can't correct it. So...you don't get what you expected. And...SOMETIMES the buyer won't tell you why. You're told "don't put 'em up just bring 'em in green." You get a couple of dollars more and the buyer puts them up and doubles the money. Bottom line....If you want the most for your fur, put 'em up right and ship north. They won't sell if it doesn't bring what they think it's worth. If you want to continue to sell green because you want to devote more time trapping than puting it up that's OK. But remember you'll get what they offer here. And they're not gonna buy at prices they can't make a profit on.
Happy Trails
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Post by bigjohn on Mar 23, 2012 18:20:44 GMT -5
I've been watching some of the FHA auction on cybercast today and I must say fur is doing great.3x and 2x beaver doing $65 to $70,1x doing $50 and lots of mediums between $25&$ 35.Big rats around $14.25 and even mediums doing $7.Grey fox around 30 and reds 40.They haven't got to the cats or yotes yet.
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Post by townsendtaxidermy on Mar 23, 2012 19:36:21 GMT -5
And they're not gonna buy at prices they can't make a profit on. Amen! I've been fair to everyone I've dealt with last season and was always paying a lot more than the market at the time. I feel a little guilty when I see the prices going so high, but I guess it's always a gamble. It could have gone the other way and those that sold to me in the round made a killing and the others that put them up got screwed. But you're exactly right Sarge, it's all about profit. I spent $20K on fur this year...all out of my pocket, no loans or IOUs. If I can't make a profit, I can't buy next year. |
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Post by segsarge on Mar 23, 2012 20:14:03 GMT -5
Kim, it's always a gamble when it comes to the fur business. And I'm sure it's the same on your side of it. And, for the record, I have nothing against people making a profit. This is America and free trade and free trappers. What does burn me is people that take advantage of the trappers who have worked hard and get not much in return. I had it done to me. If a buyer gets properly put up fur and he and the trapper both know it his profit margin on reselling that fur goes down. The trapper makes a little more and takes pride in his efforts. The buyer needs to buy more fur to make more money. If fur isn't put up right their needs to be an explantion so the trapper understands and doesn't think he's being screwed. Your efforts to "treat the trappers right" will pay dividends in the long run. And people remember that.
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Post by robertw on Mar 23, 2012 23:53:46 GMT -5
Kim,
The dinks and t!tty sows get skinned for the meat and the hide is normally thrown away as it generally most years has no or little value.
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Post by townsendtaxidermy on Mar 24, 2012 10:46:35 GMT -5
Kim, The dinks and t!tty sows get skinned for the meat and the hide is normally thrown away as it generally most years has no or little value. That just aint right! Every hide is worth something. It's killing me to be leaving for PA and know how many turkey hides/feathers will be tossed. Same when deer season rolls around. A coon, for example, can almost always be salvaged for something. Head mounts peeking out of a knot-hole, the tail for blanket trimmings, the body quilt blocks, the feet for keychains (like rabbit's foot), etc. |
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Post by bigjohn on Mar 24, 2012 11:12:33 GMT -5
Looks likew you might be able to get alot of coons cheap next year,if FHA is any indicater.Looked to be alot of resistance on them from what little I watched on cybercast.I think alot of dealers are going to be setting on coons this year with the large harvest this past season IMO.
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Post by mofotrapper on Mar 24, 2012 20:57:48 GMT -5
So bigjohn, what did the cats and yotes bring, have they did that auction yet?
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